I have come to a disturbing, albeit, more realistic, realization recently. I have been comfortable for a while believing that atheists have absolutely no burden of proof when debating with theists the merits of their beliefs and, especially, their lack of beliefs. However, I am beginning to see things differently. I have taken one more step back, you might say.
And what do I see, you might ask? I see that the atheist who not only rejects false religious claims but also strives to understand the truth of reality, cannot achieve this understanding without taking the step I have taken and looking at reality from that vantage. Atheists are not off the hook by rejecting religion. Like theists, atheists also have a burden of proof when debating worldviews.
Before I reveal this realization, let me explain what it has done for me. It has helped me to better understand deism. To the extent that deism is a philosophy that accepts a personal deity, a single deity, or a deity at all in the sense of a single force acting outside the laws of nature or being outside nature itself, deism is certainly irrational, because there is simply no way to know or reason to suspect the truthfulness of these specific claims. However, to the extent that deism accepts the possibility of a source(s) of creation and stops at this level of detail, although this is scarcely enough detail to constitute an -ism, deism scribbles a rational frame of discourse.
It is not that I have been loath to admit this. I never realized it until recently. So what is IT exactly?
The universe is spatiotemporally either infinite or finite. Either way, it contains what we recognize as information. Information is essentially a recognition of ordered difference. Yet, order is necessarily the result of recognizing difference. Therefore, difference is a basic recognition of current spatiotemporal existence.
Moreover and to be precise, given that space and time are interdependent, neither space nor time would exist in any form without some level of difference both within and between them. Something cannot come from nothing. That is, difference cannot arise from sameness. Difference must come from something different.
Is that difference what I call God? No. We need better terminology. We need a name that does not carry thousands of years of supernatural baggage. The name of God, we should all be able to agree, is anything but that name.
You might wonder if this admission makes me the newest advocate of Intelligent Design. Again, no. Like God, ID is a nominal reference that has been weighted down with reference to supernatural conceptions. And by definition, nothing in nature is supernatural, because nothing in nature is not wholly part of nature, which includes bounds of physical law.
Where does this leave us? It leaves us with a realization that a logical defense of a logical worldview compels us to consider the possibility of a natural, creative force(s) that does or did exist in the universe. It or they need not be eternal or existent. These peripheral considerations are details that occur beyond the level of our awareness.
Remember what we, as atheists, constantly ask theists. We ask, Have you considered the possibility that maybe God does not exist? Likewise, ask yourselves, my atheistic friends, Have you considered the possibility that something else does? The Big Bang did not create itself, you know.
- uberkuh's blog
- Add new comment
- 502 reads
Sun, 2006-10-22 04:19
Qualifier: When we make a positive claim, we are expected to have some sort of evidence/knowledge to substantiate and justify the claim.
Do you agree with that qualifier, or not?
It seems that in the case of a Deistic god, given your last few sentences, you may be saying that:
i) information establishes a god
ii) the nature of the big bang/origin of our universe establishes a god
There are atheists out there (I think especially of Francois Tremblay) who would likely tear into these with vigor, dropping epithets like "jackass" and "moron" along the way, to show you that you are wrong. I will not. For one thing, I do think that these two things are interesting (esp ii), but I don't think they work because of how I set up the "qualifier".
I think that both (i) and (ii) are more arguments from ignorance than positive claims, with the possible exception of (i):
<blockquote>Moreover and to be precise, given that space and time are interdependent, neither space nor time would exist in any form without some level of difference both within and between them. Something cannot come from nothing. That is, difference cannot arise from sameness. Difference must come from something different.</blockquote>
Now, I would only say that the premises here are not supported, but merely stated, yet I think I can still follow your argument. Let us consider something preliminary -- the age of the universe and time.
When we refer to 13.7 B years, we are actually discussing measurements made on the CMB radiation, recent ones, that basically give us the span of events between the universe's initial expansion and heat and now. That does not mean, however, that there were no events before this, not exactly.
It is only if one assumes that:
iii) space/time/matter all came into existence with the BB
that this holds. I think that assumption is poor for the reason of conservation. The singularity is like peering into complete ignorance, and so trying to claim (iii) is very very difficult. All we know is that the universe as it is now came from a very small and very hot state 14 Bya. Certainly, time did not exist in the same way that it does now, and it is likely that matter and energy were not as they are now. However, this does not imply that we can conclude that the expansion was the first event involving the singularity, or (iii). The cyclic universe is gaining academic respect.
Our current universe may not undergo contraction, since it appears to be expanding at an accelerating rate. This does not imply, though, that the singularity was not a sort of "equilibrium" state beyond which we cannot peer, which was the result of an infinite number of cycles and fluxes (net E = 0), that gave rise to this particular universe with its particular fundamental constants.
In short, I would say that (i) is more interesting than (ii) for these reasons -- we cannot establish (iii). Also, this is a sort of defeater for (i), if you consider that the flux between matter and energy has been eternally established. Constant change between states of order and disorder, the latter correlated to "free energy/heat" and the former correlated to "cold matter" seems to be the basis for (i). Being able to differentiate between these states is possible for us, and we know that the 2LoT gives us pause for thought -- but, if the universe is infinite in size, and if the net effect of gravity/attraction of matter will cancel out and equal the net effect of expansion of matter/heat, then we can see that the highly disordered state of the universe as it exists now can continue to collapse into a highly ordered state (leading to another singularity?).
Conclusion: It seems we have very little solid ground upon which to say that we have a knowledge claim, or evidence, that requires (i) or (ii) to be true. Reasonable explanations exist which undercut our confidence in (i) and (ii), and both are almost exactly arguments from ignorance. The ignorance is, "Why are things as they are? What was the earliest state of our universe like? Is our univese infinite in scope wrt time and size?" No one really knows these things.
While I have no personal aversion to the idea of some sort of god, and thus no real motivator to try to destroy any possibility thereof, it just seems the hypothesis is without evidence. As such, I will maintain the same position of skepticism towards god that I hold towards supersymmetry and loop quantum gravity and etc. -- I will wait until we know a little something more, and then re-evaluate my position of unbelief. I have no persuasive grounds upon which to accept claims of the truth of these propositions, nor upon which to prove them false. I can only show that a position of skepticism is rational and reasonable.
Sun, 2006-10-22 15:48
Thanks for your feedback, Daniel. For what they are worth, here are my responses.
First, I am neither comfortable calling any universal creative force(s) by the name of God, nor, apart from that title, supernatural. The word supernatural has no meaning to me, since what we know must be natural and what we do not know comprises an argument from ignorance to call it supernatural.
Next, yes, I agree that any positive claim, or claim that something is or might be, requires reason. However, I also find that because (1) all opinions and beliefs involve some form of thought, including emotion, and (2) thought qua thought requires at least a modicum of reason, it follows that (3) all positive claims require at least a modicum of reason.
So, what atheists call "blind faith" requires reason, at a founding conceptual level. The concept forming an object of faith--and all faith has an object (to have faith in)--is, at some basic level, apparently reasonable to the person holding that faith. This, incidentally, is one argument in support for my inclusion above of emotion with thought. As I see it, the interrelation is intrinsic.
Regarding the universe's Big Bang or singularity event, I see no reason to presume a beginning. However, I see every reason to allow the possibility of a source of difference-making. I mean difference here in the most abstract sense.
In short, I apologize if I did not explain myself clearly. I often have little patience for explanation. I am aware that clarification is at the heart of interpersonal communication, especially where intuition is involved, but I am also aware how much time it can take to adequately explain some things and that, often, the effort is wasted on most people.
Sun, 2006-10-22 17:45
First of all, I am a novice to your topic so I cannot comment on it. However, I would like to let you know your explanation is appreciated. It gives me hope that perhaps at some distant point in the future philosophy might make sense to my brain. Because this is written in conversational lingo as opposed to formal literary style with long and complex sentences, the particles of language used in philosophy are easier to understand. I guess I don't have adequate vocabulary re language to explain. Sorry for wasting your space. Maybe you like to know you helped somebody.
Ruby